3 questions

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TimeDilation
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3 questions

Post by TimeDilation »

i wanted to ask about a thing that happened during a dl2 game (not sure if this counts for dl1 too):

enemy settlement: 2 troopers 1 command corp
my incoming troops: 13 scouts all with disarm mine mission

at the end of turn, ALL of them but 3 were busted and killed, the other 3 were forced to fight.

the questions are two:
1- how is that possible that 3 units bust 13?
2- can it be an uncloaking battle order of enemy command corp, that revealed my units?

i'm a bit puzzled.


second thing, maybe it's a bug? it's kind of 'units disappearing' when conquering a territory (mostly an abandoned city with land mines, which the unit(s) survive).

third thing: why the hell a unit set on 'avoid mines' would target buildings and destroy them? is this a kind of fake juggernaut?

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Re: 3 questions

Post by sdu754 »

My experience is only with deadlock 1.

Did your enemy have citizens in their territory? Do citizens fight in deadlock 2 like they do on deadlock 1? Those citizens could kill off a lot of units. Troopers probably have higher military capabilities than scouts as well. Stronger units can kill several weaker units before being killed off.

Units will sometimes randomly attack things other than units. The animated battles in deadlock 1 would show units destroying buildings with normal battle orders

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Re: 3 questions

Post by TimeDilation »

that is.
if you say 'attack a building' you expect the units will attack buildings. and it happens.
but if you say 'avoid mines' they will try to avoid mines BUT they will attack buildings as well. land mines are missing in deadlock 1 ( and i think it is a sin, since they improve a lot the tactical aspect), and in deadlock 2 on the manual they say that avoid mines order will decrease the combat efficiency.
i am thinking that they 'diverted the firepower' on buildings because the programmers were somehow not able to apply a modifier for troops with avoid mines order.

about your questions...boffff i dont remember honestly! i was just puzzled about the other thing, when a few troops can discover a lot of spies. i'm not talking about fighting, i'm talking about spies, like when you drag your spies on enemy settlement to see what they are doing. probably the best thing would be making some tests on the editor...but whooooo has the will? :D i'm playing DL2 since 1998...i think i pretty much know the tricks of that game...but some aspects remain obscure.

(personally i dont play deadlock 1 anymore, because in my opinion deadlock 2 is exactly as its older brother, but with a few improvements which make it more fun and complex. included the woman human commander hehe -kidding- and mostly notable more tactical tricks and maneuvers you can do with your troops, and more victory conditions)

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Re: 3 questions

Post by MaugTheInfirm »

The first 10 spies probably fell to the "were discovered and killed trying to flee" message you might get when that sort of thing happens. Any discovered spy is automatically killed.

Which leaves 3 spies fighting "2 troopers" and 1 command corp. I've never used a 3 spy army myself, but I'd guess the following factors come into play:
* What type of military unit were the "troopers"? Were they laser squads, or battle troopers? One battle trooper would eliminate all 3 spies with ease, while a laser squad might kill 1-2 before falling.
* Races involved. Tarth military are tougher and better at combat, which helps. And a Cyth command corp can kill a military unit from afar - could kill 3 spies before they got to him, potentially.
* Presence of command corps gives +10% to hit, so the military has an advantage.
* Veteran or higher experience of military gives bonuses to hit as well
* spies are really weak - a group of colonists can kill off 3 spies.

And some speculation on my part:
* tanks generally have range on infantry units. Maybe infantry units have a range advantage on spies?
* as you wondered, "disarm mines" might involve a combat disadvantage to movement or attack
* if the spies were subject to an "uncloak" mission by the command unit, then those infantry were probably battle troopers or assault troopers. The spies have no chance in that battle.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by TimeDilation »

i'm afraid you are not on the point: all that doesn't happen in combat.
i'll reformulate.
on an enemy settlement, containing a few troops (assault) and one command corp, i drag 13 scouts. these scouts do not have a fight order. they are supposed to sneak in and deactivate land mines. they are not supposed to fight.

now, what happens normally? one troop is one patrol order. one patrol order busts one enemy scout. or, the scout is diffused by the minefield. This is reported in the event log as event, not as combat.
At later stages of the game, this criteria somehow changes, and all the 13 scouts get discovered by these 2-3 troops and 1 command corp. some of the scouts went even into fight, despite they were told to do else.
i was wondering what causes this behaviour. a technology? which one? uncloaking? a different efficiency in infantry types when patrolling (meaning assault troopers will "patrol more" than laser squad)? the questions are a) why first a spy/patroller ratio of 1:1 and then this is increased? b) what causes the 3 scouts to come to a fight?

this also is applied for supernova spyjets and cloaked colonizers

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Re: 3 questions

Post by MaugTheInfirm »

Oh, okay. You're more interested in why they didn't flee. Do you change the "retreat at" setting? Your earlier posts didn't mention it. Next time this comes up, bring up the unit detail for your scout(s) and look for "retreat at [100] % damage". Change that to "retreat at 0 % damage", which is "flee immediately". I'm not sure it works for scouts, but for most units they flee battle as it begins.

I haven't played with scouts enough to understand why there's a limit of 1 scout discovered early on that changes later in the game. The presence of the commander suggests an "uncloak" mission was selected, especially when 3 scouts were forced into battle.

Back to your original post, the third question concerned "avoid mines". Troops with "avoid mines" have no other mission, so they destroy buildings and defenses alike. They will attack everything until they reach that lone defensive tower in the back of the colony... Wish there was a check box "[ ] avoid mines" so I could also order them to "target only units" as their mission. But since "avoid mines" and "target only units" are mutually exclusive missions, we're forced to choose.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by TimeDilation »

oh yes. well, finally i came up with the theory that Uncloak technology makes spies extremely easy to detect.

anyways, if you love to play with Maug, i'd advise you to enforce your skills with scouts, at least imho -they are essential for maug'ing :)

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